Berrylin : 0:35

Well, hello. Welcome to the hallway. I am Beryl Manjin. I'm very grateful that you're with us today. I have a very special guest recording with me today, and she is my very kind friend Ashley Boyd. is a mama and a therapist and a wife and a friend and an advocate and a deep hearted ride or die feeler. Um, she's a kind confidant, she gives the best hugs, we had the pleasure of working together for a lot of years, both at an agency and in private practice. And now I live halfway across the world and she's still in Nashville, Tennessee, and she has recently gone from full time private practice, seeing clients every day to doing solely intensives, which is, um, beautiful and wonderful because she is uniquely gifted to do that work. And

Ashley: 1:31

All right.

Berrylin : 1:32

that I am grateful for because I can send people to her and know they will be tended to, loved, and transformed. So, very kind friend

Ashley: 1:41

Hmm.

Berrylin : 1:42

is here to talk to us today about the hallway. Do you want to introduce yourself a little bit or say hi?

Ashley: 1:48

Goodness. After that, I don't know that there's much to it. It's like the kindest introduction ever.

Berrylin : 1:54

That was all true.

Ashley: 1:55

Sound like a super, sound like a superhero.

Berrylin : 1:59

That's not far from the truth,

Ashley: 2:00

yeah. It's so, so fun to sit across from you and just gaze into your eyes and see you and be here. And, um, what a cool, this podcast is just so cool. It's right up my alley too. Cause, uh, yeah, I know a lot about the hallway. Have lived there majority.

Berrylin : 2:18

start is when we got on. So we caught up for an hour, everybody, before we got on to record. Cause know, when you schedule in time with a friend and someone else has your kiddos, you're like, Hey, how are you? Um, but the thing that Ashley said, the beginning was. That you listened to one of the last episodes about visitors or dwellers. And you said.

Ashley: 2:40

I am a founding member of the Dwellers in the Hallway Club.

Berrylin : 2:45

That's true. We, we

Ashley: 2:47

This is,

Berrylin : 2:47

start making cards, uh,

Ashley: 2:50

that's right. Founding, founding member. Uh, no, I, you know, I've thought about the concept of the hallway and that I don't ever remember a time where I didn't feel like I was in it. It's, you know, I grew up as a kid that, um. You know, I, I struggled with pretty severe ADHD and my brain just operated differently. And so I felt like for a lot of my childhood, I didn't fit in and, um, you know, grew into adulthood and had periods of time personally and relationships and marriage. Um, and we can get into the specifics of different seasons of me being in the hallway, but realizing that I don't know that it is in my story to not be in the hallway. Um, it's just a place where I have learned to kind of camp out. Um, and so I know one of the things we're going to talk about today is how I've learned to have some joy in the hallway and it's through play. And that's been, I don't ever remember a time in my story where there hasn't been this almost pathological need for me to play. Um, and that started at a really, really early age of. I remember, um, in my loneliness as a child, I remember reading the secret garden and going out in my yard. We'd lived on two lots of land and finding holes where there were frogs and exploring and, and that providing so much, Um, it helped with the loneliness, but provided so much joy and exploration. And, um, I started riding horses when I was young too, which was, there was a moment in my forties where I began riding horses again after a, in the middle of a hallway season. Um, but just, Wanting to talk, um, and explore this concept of playing in the hallway, you know, so I'm glad we're talking about it.

Berrylin : 5:04

I have two questions. One is, can you define what you mean by play? And it's interesting to me that you say like, it's always been there for you. So it's not something you had to grow. It's something you had internally. So I want to hear

Ashley: 5:20

Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 5:21

it. And then. A little bit more about that because that's interesting. I don't know that I would have known that about you. I think I, I would have thought because it's not something internal for me that is easy. I would have thought you cultivated it. So it's so interesting to me that it's something that you've always had. So those are my two questions.

Ashley: 5:41

So, interestingly enough, I think we are born with it. I think it gets shut down because of the pain in our stories or because our survivor needs to do something other than play in order to survive. And so I think sometimes as we age, we start to see it as something that we do have to cultivate. But I, and we do, but I think it's there, it's been there all along. You know, kids, their language is play. You know, as therapists, we talk about play therapy being affected because effective, because that is their language. Um, you know, people have different feelings about the Enneagram, but I'm just going to let you know, I'm a seven on the Enneagram. So of course this comes very naturally to me. Sevens love, love to play. Um, so it has not had to be cultivated as much as making sure that I carve out time for it because As an adult, there are so many demands, you know, when you have kids, you're putting their needs, you know, to some degree above yours at times, um, you know, professionally, we've got clients that they have, there's just competing needs. So for me, it was no, it was not about having to recultivate it as much as it was protect it and fight for that time. Um, as a kid, you know, I, I can tell you, I grew up on roller skates. I grew up on bicycles. I, you know, grew up, you know, like I said, in the yard, I grew up on horses and I think that those We're natural dopamine producers for me, and the beauty of that is, like, we have access to that. And it's going to look different for different people, you know. As adults, sometimes play is creating, it's art, it's gardening, it's, I mean, we play a lot of games in our house, some of which we create on our own, and some of which are card games or board games. And I did, I just, I was thinking about this. I want to just share this really quickly. It is not lost on me that the house that we live in, what drew me to this house, it's a, it's a ranch style house is that it has the longest hallway.

Berrylin : 8:17

I hadn't thought of

Ashley: 8:18

It's my favorite

Berrylin : 8:19

long.

Ashley: 8:22

and the reason why I saw that hallway and all I could think about is all the things that we could do in that hallway. So, for me, for in Nashville, for you guys, who don't know, like, there are months of dark, dreary winter day. Sometimes it's like, the sun will set at 430 and. In our home, that hallway became a place of roller skating, hoverboarding, throwing balls, the dinks and the chipping of the paint and all the things that have occurred in that hall. And it's like, this is a space of play. When there are dark, hard days, and yeah, I love that hall. Um, so part of learning to love or be at least comfortable in the hallway for me has been play. Um, and I just want to encourage who, you know, whoever's listening, like there is play in you. There are things that can make you feel alive. If you know those things, I want you to fight for them. If you don't, let's start exploring.

Berrylin : 9:34

So I love part of what you've just said is like, we realize it or not, we all knew how to play. It's kind of like I talk a lot about like, if a kid doesn't know how to tell you what he knows, He or she needs,'cause they learned, they stopped.

Ashley: 9:51

Yes,

Berrylin : 9:52

so this feels the same. And so for those of us, me who have a harder time, it's more probably about like rubble moving and, and relearning. Like rediscovering as

Ashley: 10:06

yes.

Berrylin : 10:07

knew it in the first place.

Ashley: 10:10

That's exactly it.

Berrylin : 10:11

you who has, you know,'cause all the things you mentioned like roller skates, bikes, horses, all of those things were present for me as a kid. And. For you though you have always are probably like you talked about identifying as a seven on the enneagram like this is just part of how you're put together but you have continued to hold on to it and you know though when you get in seasons that are darker you have to protect it and fight for it

Ashley: 10:43

absolutely.

Berrylin : 10:44

is people kind of realizing where they are like do they, you know, Move more toward you or more toward me or somewhere else because that'll let you know where you are to know what you need to do to be able to cultivate play.

Ashley: 10:57

Yes, yes, yes. Beautifully said. Yeah. What

Berrylin : 11:05

but I get so many things done, Ashley,

Ashley: 11:10

I would say,

Berrylin : 11:10

do

Ashley: 11:10

that's so funny you say that. I would say that we oftentimes view play as unproductive. And, and just like, when we talk about caring for self and we have to have sort of a paradigm shift where we realize that in, in order to be productive, we have to have care for self. I would say that play is a part of caring for self. And so I'll just give you an example. Um, 1 of the hallways that I lived in for a really long time was that, um, my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in her fifties. And because it was early onset, you know, on the front end, we thought this is going to be a fast process. And then it became a 17 to 18 year process, which is a really, really long time. She lived across the street from us for a while has, and, you know, we've, we've lived very close and been an active part when she was living of her, of caring for her. And When I turned 40, I decided, you know what, in order to find some joy and relief from this day in and day out pain, I'm going to start riding horses again. So I was like, I'm going to find somebody and I'm going to start taking lessons again. So I start riding horses again. It brings so much joy. Just a glimpse of when I'm on a horse, I'm not thinking about anything else but riding that horse. So I think sometimes we think play is a distraction and I really think that it puts us in our body and present in a way that other things don't. So I'm not thinking about my to do list, I'm just being present on that horse. So jump forward a little bit, and um, another hallway that I sat in was the trauma, the grief, and then so much anger around the, um, one of my dear friends was murdered. And I, at that point was like, I'm not just going to ride a horse, I'm going to freaking buy a horse. And that horse carried me through the very long, long, dark hallway of questioning, faith crisis. anger. And when I was on that horse again, I didn't think about that because all I thought about was what does it feel like in my body to be on this horse? What is it? There was something that connected me to myself without the backdrop of pain, which by the way, that doesn't go away. I'm not escaping it. I'm just finding some joy and relief in the midst of it. And I would say that there have been, I started playing pickleball this year because I'm again in another hallway professionally of like, what does the rest of my life look like? And I, I, I play an ungodly amount of pickleball. I'll be honest.

Berrylin : 14:25

of you in your pickleball outfit, please.

Ashley: 14:29

Oh, it's a whole thing.

Berrylin : 14:30

see it.

Ashley: 14:31

I wear a headband, like a, like a sweatband. It's, it's like a whole thing, but it brings me so much joy. And I do think that there's a part of it that's like, it's appropriate dopamine in order to sustain the waiting. You know, waiting is there's suffering involved in waiting. Yes. In a way.

Berrylin : 14:57

So when you talk about play, there's more that needs to be in this sentence. So I'm going to kind of like hit it to you. It's something like. Where the thing that you're doing brings you joy and allows you or encourage you or invites you to be fully present.

Ashley: 15:22

That you oftentimes are not in day in and day out life. It's almost like a space Where you allow yourself to move in different ways, to think in different ways, to explore in different ways that you don't in your typical, you know, checking off the list, getting dinner on the table. Yeah, you know, um. Um, and, and the truth is, if we talk about just physical, emotional, spiritual health, if we talk about, you know, blue zones or however you want to talk about people that live fully, um, for long periods of time with, with joy, this is part of what they have in their life. Um, and, and then it gets even cooler cause then you can learn to play with others too. Which brings a whole nother component of relationship and connection and laughter, banter, um, and some people, you know, either there are ways that I play absolutely just by myself. And then there are ways that I incorporate people into that, but it's, it's just a reprieve, um, from the day in and day out and it does, it works your body and your brain in ways that you typically don't.

Berrylin : 16:54

It's interesting one of the things that came up when you were talking about being on the horse Um, I haven't ridden in a really long time. So I can't remember. Um, I think that was true, but it's been 30 years Maybe longer. Um, but the thing I do remember is After Michael was born, Anthony and I had a, just like a night in downtown Nashville, like we got a hotel room, to dinner with some family that was in town. It was really lovely, but we spent the whole afternoon. Anthony's parents had Michael and we got on, um, the motorized scooters that were downtown and

Ashley: 17:33

yes, yes.

Berrylin : 17:33

to have a dirt bike in my early thirties, um, which is just a little more dangerous of a choice. And what I really loved about having a dirt bike was just going very fast from point A to point B, turning around and going very fast back. Like I didn't want to do hill climbs. I don't want to do tricks. I just wanted to go fast

Ashley: 17:50

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 17:52

So that it's the same thing on those scooters.

Ashley: 17:55

It's, it's the same thing. It is. It's a feeling of like the wind blowing through your hair and the moving at a pace that you don't typically move, you know, through life. You don't move at that pace. It's, it's the same thing when you get on a bike, it, it hits a part of you where you are seeing things from a different perspective. Angle position. There's something about the wind and the, you know, the movement that's produces joy. It makes you feel young in a way that is, is beautiful, not young in a painful way, but young. And, uh, oh, I know this. I remember this somewhere in there. Um,

Berrylin : 18:46

like other, Mm hmm. Let's, let's talk about some other ones. Um, I'm not telling you that I'm going to use you for free friend therapy right now, but sure. We're just going to go with that.

Ashley: 18:59

I would say I have actually made a list of this. I would say being in nature is playful in any capacity.

Berrylin : 19:14

All right. So if you're in nature, cause so like over here, say, We go on a walk through the woods or y'all go on a walk through the woods there. How does a walk through the woods become playful?

Ashley: 19:32

It's a great question. I have this philosophy. This is so bizarre, but I've always told myself this and I tell my kids this too. You will find what you're looking for. If you are looking for it somehow or another, you'll find it. And what I mean by that is if I, so we live in the city, like we live urban.

Berrylin : 19:56

Yes, you do. hmm.

Ashley: 19:59

And so I have lots of choices when I go to our park, I can stay on the concrete, or I can go down these trails that are, um, not concrete that are a little more, I would say woodsy, and I, to some degree will play with, I will get into play by saying, what do I want to see? And can I set my eyes to look for it? And sometimes it's, I want to see, I want to see a fawn. I'm not kidding you. If my eyes to some degree, if I set my eyes to see it, I will see it. I want to see. Um, you know, if it's, if it's a dreary, it's, it's deciding I can play with that of, I want to know what it feels like to, to have, I want to feel the rocks underneath my feet. I want to feel like I'm choosing what sensory, I guess, I guess that's what I would say is it's engaging your senses in a way that is

Berrylin : 21:07

Yeah.

Ashley: 21:08

and, and, and knowing what I choosing my, it's like a choose your own adventure, I guess is what I would say.

Berrylin : 21:14

I love that. Well,

Ashley: 21:16

Does that make any sense?

Berrylin : 21:17

I think

Ashley: 21:18

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 21:19

The thing I'll say is we have this. We have this walk here called the Laid Brace that is just this crazy woodland walk in like from like we live less than a mile from the gates to town. So, it's like a, it's like a woodland fairy land that you just jump on and like walk into town and it's huge trees and a babbling brook. And I mean, it's ridiculous, but sometimes people put fairy doors on the trees. And

Ashley: 21:46

Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 21:48

the fairies? Um, so I think what's. someone like me, and I'm in a season of life where responsibility is significantly high. Um, so it makes sense that is not always my first, but for someone like me to just say like these ordinary, I'm putting, you know, quotations around that word, these ordinary or these daily things that we do, how do you Just reorient to yourself, like, just reset your compass to how can this thing be play this walk into town? Um, so let's do that with a couple other things like that. That is that is like transformational for me.

Ashley: 22:35

Yeah, I have a great, can I say something to that? So if you, if I were on that walk and again, this somewhat just comes naturally for me is I'm going to pick up a stone and I'm going to try to skip it and see how many times it can skip.

Berrylin : 22:50

do that. We do that. And we do pine cone races on this little waterfall. Um, so we do

Ashley: 22:56

Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 23:00

how long until we need to go because I have to get to, you know, back to get to work or, you know, whatever the thing is. And so I think for me, it would be the thing of how do I stay present in this thing?

Ashley: 23:16

Yeah.

Berrylin : 23:17

off the responsibility for a period of time. And I think that's going to be feel

Ashley: 23:25

Well, I can.

Berrylin : 23:26

of people. Cause that's where we all live, right? It's like, how do I stay fully present in this thing when the weight that is on my shoulders? Is real.

Ashley: 23:39

Yes. And I will say that to some degree, this is a blessing and a curse, but. I don't live on the time space continuum very well. So my friends are asking me, how am I going to get Ashley off the trail in enough time to meet me when I need to be, when she needs to be there, which, which is, you know, that's, that's on me. So it may be, I'm not thinking about getting off the trail, which. Is beautiful in some ways. And also that's, that's problematic when you have to live in a, in a world where you have to be somewhere at a certain time. And it may be just setting a timer. I mean, like, if, if, if, you know, you need to be off by this time, you go, I'm not going to think about it, but I'm going to set a thing that goes off. So that I know, okay, it's time to stop so that our brain is not continuing. To follow up with, it gives us a little bit of respite being on the time space continuum.

Berrylin : 24:40

Okay. Give me a couple other examples.

Ashley: 24:42

Yes, a play? Okay, this is perfect. Um, during the pandemic, we, um, we spent a period of time in Florida. And where we were, um, there, there was nobody there. It was just our family. And we were coming up with all sorts of crazy ways to play. And this was play for us there, where we stayed, there was this huge, um, like outdoor, almost arena thing. And there was a stage and at the very, very, very top, there was a vent and we would take a volleyball. All 4 of us, and we would throw that ball, we made a game of it to see who can hit the vent in the least amount of times. And I cannot tell you how many days we went out there and through that volleyball events, you know, sometimes it was. My youngest son would get 20 and we'd have to beat 20, like thinking outside, like you can make a stage, a concrete stage with a vent at the top play in the middle of a pandemic where there is, you maybe hadn't seen somebody all day long and that time, I mean, we came up with games on that lawn that you wouldn't even believe. I mean, so many games. Um, it made it a little more bearable, a little more joyful. Like I can do this one more day. Um, you know, the pandemic was a hallway for all of us.

Berrylin : 26:19

hallway.

Ashley: 26:21

Yeah. Yep.

Berrylin : 26:22

Um,

Ashley: 26:23

Yes.

Berrylin : 26:23

things, so as you know, I'm trying to convert the whole world to cold water dipping. Um, are you starting to do it?

Ashley: 26:33

Oh, I did. I'm actually doing it at five o'clock today. It's the, oh, I do it every, I do it every Sunday and I wear a truck, a trucker hat that says Sundays on it every single time I did, because it's like, this is my best. Oh, I love it so much. So we have a group on our street. We just have a huge metal tub. We fill it up with water. We put ice in it and we all pick a song and we encourage each other. And every Sunday, five o'clock

Berrylin : 27:03

this so much.

Ashley: 27:04

the best thing.

Berrylin : 27:05

So even in that for you, like the hat, the song, the community,

Ashley: 27:10

Yes.

Berrylin : 27:11

each other.

Ashley: 27:14

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Play, play, play, play. Resetting your brain, giving yourself natural dopamine. I mean, I mean, it's. We're getting it one way or another, whether it's shopping, alcohol, social media, it's like, what if we could get it in a way that was like sustaining and life giving and like, not that those things are bad. I'm not saying that I'm not categorizing it, but there's a way in which we may have to get a little more creative. In order to experience joy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 27:59

unless I told her today, I was like, unless I'm sick, which I was last week, I had the norovirus I'm sick or there is such wind raging that we physically cannot walk into the water. I'm going. Um, and so, you know, we've been doing it, I've been doing it for like a year exclusively. Like, so make the joke that if I can go two or three times a week, like I could figure out world peace. Um, but there was a time, I don't know, a couple months ago, we were going with our friend Tessa and it was a day where we had to go to East Sands, which is a little harder because there are waves. And day the waves were just like. Intent. It was a full contact sport. I was like, but I needed it so bad that I was like, I'm doing this. so we get in there and Haley's better about like getting in and going for it. And I take very much take my time. But on that day, it's like, you're just, you're there. You're right. Here we go. But we ended up, it was also a beautiful sunny day. We ended up playing in the waves for like 45 minutes. You know, the water's like, I don't know, 45 degrees. And we're just playing in the waves. It was so much fun. And it was interesting that I noted, like, there are days where it's like church. I feel like I go to church with Haley on Tuesday mornings. And then there are days when, like that one, it was play. And it felt different neurochemically than on the days when it's church. It was, it was crazy. Um,

Ashley: 29:29

Yes. Yes.

Berrylin : 29:31

let's talk about a couple others because I want to give people as many examples as possible.

Ashley: 29:38

So, yeah. I think that. It's hard because I think sometimes we think about play automatically. We think about, I think when I say play, it's, it's like, Oh, children play. Oh, people that play sports play. Well, some people are like, sports aren't my thing. Totally get it. I think that there are different, like we have become, like I said, big time gamers. And what I mean by that is we, we play Scrabble, which I know is, you know, Sounds super nerdy, but we do a lot of scrabble.

Berrylin : 30:15

into monopoly and snakes and ladders in our house. Uh

Ashley: 30:18

Uh huh. Yes, yes, yes. We play, we found a new game called Quiddler that I love, which is like a little word game. We play, um, oh my gosh, what is the name of that game? Perimenopause Moment. Oh, code names, code names. Um, and now these are for, I mean, this is, you have to be able to read. So obviously with, with younger children, but I think, um, this is what I want to say to you. Sorry, this, I was thinking about all the things that were coming to my mind with play. The process matters more than the outcome

Berrylin : 30:54

the people like me who need to hear it more than once?

Ashley: 30:58

in play. The process matters more than the outcome.

Berrylin : 31:03

things in life.

Ashley: 31:05

Yes. Just like when kids are building a fort, what's, what's exhilarating about that is not what the fort, the, the sheet fort or the blanket fort looks like at the end of it. It's the process of, and then we're going to do this and then we're going to put it here. There was no outcome when you were jumping around in those waves. It was the process of being there with them, experiencing like nature in a way that, using your body in a way that is not, you know, I mean, how often are you in the waves jumping around? It's the process. So with games, I don't even think it's like, who's the winner. It's, it's, it's the process. So I would say anything that gets you. Into your body, whether that be art, music is play, dance is play. We dance a lot. Like if you come to our house, I sound like I'm making myself sound like I'm the most fun human being on the planet and I'm not, but like we just practice this a lot. There's music when we're making dinner and there is silliness and dancing. Um,

Berrylin : 32:27

Yeah.

Ashley: 32:29

and it's, it's an easy form of it. Um, I would say. Um, nature, gardening, if you have a garden, even going out and saying, what, how do I want to create an arrangement? Like, what do I feel like today? Do I want, you know, there's, there's something playful about that.

Berrylin : 32:54

It's interesting this, this year I didn't have space. I have two raised beds kind of outside of our kitchen and I didn't have space this year. We had, Strawberry plants that lasted through the winter. So I just kind of let them have their day in one of the beds. And, um, and the other one was empty and I was like, I don't have space to do vegetables this year. Like we're just going to buy from the grocery store. Um, but I had all these like. Flower seeds that I've been collecting that I was like, I'm going to, you know, make a plan and grow these blah, blah, blah. And so I just took the ones that were like, you can sew them. And I think it was in like the beginning of May, April or May, you can sew them into the ground in April or May. I was like, great. I just dug out

Ashley: 33:36

Yep.

Berrylin : 33:37

and just like dropped them all in. I knew when I was growing up. pumpkin, covered it up and just kept watering it. And now we have flowers. Do I know what they are? No, cause I lost the packets, so I don't know what they are. I mean, I know what some of them are cause I can tell, but like some of them are growing, I was like, I have no idea what this flower is. Not a clue. Um, and that for me was play. Like, I can't, I don't have

Ashley: 33:57

Yes.

Berrylin : 33:58

out, but I love looking at my kitchen window doing dishes and looking at all the green and the petals and it makes me happy. And some of them I cut and some of them I just leave because the bees really love it. I'm like, I'm just going to leave them for the

Ashley: 34:09

Yes.

Berrylin : 34:10

are very happy.

Ashley: 34:11

Yes. Watching them play around it. And yeah, when I was thinking about you, I was thinking about dirt bikes and I was thinking about the fact that you were a florist and I was imagining you when you put together arrangements, there's something playful about that. What catches your eye? What feels, you know, even, even thinking about the type of mood that you want to, um, set or the stage you want to set in an arrangement. Like I was imagining you there's play in that.

Berrylin : 34:42

funny sometimes when I'm arranging flowers, especially when I used to at my parents house do like big arrangements for parties, would be in the garage, which is, you know, in Florida in summer, hot. I'd be in the garage

Ashley: 34:55

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm

Berrylin : 34:59

or whatever in the middle. And I would be able to walk around it. You know, it would take me like, Our two hours. And sometimes I would close my eyes. Like I would know where a flower needed to go, but I could feel it more than I could see it. Um, I miss making arrangements that are that big.

Ashley: 35:17

hmm. Yeah, that's play.

Berrylin : 35:21

And I think when you were talking about gardening and cooking, I was thinking about that earlier. I think gardening. With joy, cooking with joy. And sometimes we can't write, like we have to feed our families. Like we have to feed them dinner every night. Like someone should have told us that before we

Ashley: 35:34

Yeah.

Berrylin : 35:34

to become adults

Ashley: 35:36

Right? Yes. And that sometimes that you would be doing that with somebody screaming the whole entire time.

Berrylin : 35:42

Oh, I just created it from scratch for the last, you know, two

Ashley: 35:46

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 35:46

Great. Oh, you want a peanut butter sandwich with marmalade on it? Awesome. Fantastic.

Ashley: 35:52

Yep.

Berrylin : 35:52

So, but when you're cooking with joy, like that feels different. Like I told you, my mom's here and she, again, we all got the stomach bug this week. She was the last one to get it. So yesterday I had space. I had time. So I made homemade chicken vegetable noodle soup. It was

Ashley: 36:11

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 36:11

but I've really

Ashley: 36:12

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 36:13

like making dinner. felt like

Ashley: 36:16

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 36:17

a soup.

Ashley: 36:19

Yes.

Berrylin : 36:20

different

Ashley: 36:21

Yes. It is. It is. There, there's something about it that, and for me, it's There's something about putting on music and having, like, it's almost, it's, it's a trick and it's not a trick. Are there ways that we can trick ourselves into going, I'm going to enjoy this experience, but it's really not. It's just that we're, we're bringing something into it that feels more life giving, um, whether it be music or having someone come in and, you know, Visit with you. Um, there's just something about breaking up the monotony of the hallway that I think play does and I think we have to think outside the box of what play is because it's different to some degree. It's it's going to be different for each of us and what we have access is going to be different. Like, not everybody can get on a horse.

Berrylin : 37:19

of why it's so good that you brought up music and dancing, because we know so much in terms of the nervous system and groundedness with dance and with music. And available to pretty much I mean, even if the, you know, the electricity is completely off, you can hum yourself a tune. Um, so, and that's a good reminder for me because that's not a go to for me, but it's something that I really enjoy.

Ashley: 37:49

My youngest also is, um, we're very, very similar. And one of the things I love about him more than anything else is, The second he gets out of bed, he whistles. He's a whistler. I can hear him in the shower, whistling, whistling. And I'm like, that is just, he just oozes joy, but he, he moves about in life, moves about his day with play all, all day long. It's, it's just an interesting, it's, it's actually. Um,

Berrylin : 38:32

For you with clients, what has it been like to watch them re engage with play?

Ashley: 38:45

so I'm not giving any identifying information right now, but I saw a woman who has spent a lot of time in the hallway. We did all sorts of different work, hard, hard work. And at some point I said, you doing? What do you just love? And she said, I miss tennis so much. And I said, I know that your life is super complicated. I am begging you to carve out time for tennis. And so about a month later, she came in and she said, basically, I just paid you for months and months and months of therapy when you could have just told me I need to go play tennis. And I was like,

Berrylin : 39:28

All better.

Ashley: 39:29

She's like, that's the best piece of advice that right there has been the piece to resistance is like, I, I just need to start. I just needed to play tennis, um, and, and things really started shifting for her. So, I think that is, I definitely incorporate that into the work that I do with clients is what does it look like for you to re, engage with play? Okay. And again, it's there. What obstacles, like you said, do we need to evaluate and start moving in order for you to come back to that place, um, to re engage with it?

Berrylin : 40:11

when you were talking, what came up for me is that sometimes depending on how we're wired or what we carry. There's this feeling of, I think like, I'm going to try to figure out how to put this because it's kind of like on the tip of my brain. What I'm carrying is too heavy to set down to be able to

Ashley: 40:35

Mm, mm

Berrylin : 40:37

And so

Ashley: 40:37

hmm,

Berrylin : 40:38

feeling of like giving yourself not just permission, but like the reminder that what you set down and what you pick back up may be different because you've given yourself space to play. Um, because sometimes, especially you and I talked about before, you know, we got on here like there's a cost to the work we do and there's

Ashley: 41:01

hmm,

Berrylin : 41:02

a carrying of things, um, that is wearing,

Ashley: 41:14

mm hmm, mm hmm,

Berrylin : 41:16

we care about, I think things going on in the world because we see the effect of them and the people that we walk alongside. And so sometimes I think setting down how much you care about that thing or those things or the thing that you're worried about or concerned about or. You know, I wish I'd done that piece differently or whatever the thing is, that it is really okay to set it down. And maybe I'm saying it more for myself. Like maybe somebody else needs to hear it too, but. Like what, what I set

Ashley: 41:44

yeah,

Berrylin : 41:45

and allow myself to just give myself just like I did to those waves like fully freely, totally present a bathing suit for all the world to see,

Ashley: 41:56

yes,

Berrylin : 41:59

that what I come back to may have needed what I got from play.

Ashley: 42:06

yes, yes, yes, yeah, it's still there. It's still there when you get out of the ocean. It's just, you're able to carry it in a different way,

Berrylin : 42:20

mean you didn't care about it because you allowed yourself to put it down. I think

Ashley: 42:25

right?

Berrylin : 42:26

thing is it feels so important or they, whatever the things are, they are important, but you can't carry them all the time.

Ashley: 42:37

And it may mean that you care about it so much that you need to incorporate play in order to continue to To carry it. Yeah,

Berrylin : 42:55

What do you want people to leave with today? What do you want them to think about, ponder on, absorb? Be with.

Ashley: 43:10

I think Knowing that you are worth being curious About play and what that looks like for you, first and foremost, because the truth is, like, you're right. We don't have to know. And sometimes there's shame that comes with. I don't even know what that would look like for me. That's okay. We're just stepping into curiosity about it. So knowing you're worth being curious about what play would look like for you and also knowing you are worth carving out whatever time or space is needed in order to enter into that. Um, and that you're right. It doesn't mean like, I want to be really clear. This talking about play is not in order to get out of the hallway. It does not get us out of, or move us out of the hallway. It just allows us to dance and have a little more joy

Berrylin : 44:09

Yeah.

Ashley: 44:09

hallway. Um, so you're right. It's we're carrying heavy, heavy loads, many of us, and playing doesn't mean we don't care about that. It's giving ourself the freedom to have a little, to ease some of the suffering so that we can carry it a little longer.

Berrylin : 44:36

Or we can put the parts down that we don't need to carry anymore.

Ashley: 44:40

Yeah. Or carry them in a different way. Mm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 44:47

but I listened to this book called glucose revolution. Um, that was just, I think it's a beautiful book. It really helped me understand like how food works in a way that doesn't focus on my precious form needing to be different than she is. So I really enjoyed it. But one of the things she talked about at the beginning was like, she's an academic. And so she was like, here's how things work. And she was like, glucose and fructose combined together and they make a smaller molecule. And that's what sucrose is. And I was like, let me get this straight. Glucose and fructose come together, they get smaller and then that's a totally different thing. That's even sweeter. I didn't have this conversation with her obviously, but this is what I'm thinking in my head. And she was like, yes. Yes. That is what happens. So that's part of what you're talking about, about like these things come together and they're smaller. So

Ashley: 45:38

Mm.

Berrylin : 45:41

thank you for today.

Ashley: 45:45

So good being with you.

Berrylin : 45:47

we did this episode just for me and I didn't know it until we got halfway through.

Ashley: 45:55

I just love you, and if it's just for you, it is worth every single second.

Berrylin : 46:00

I was thinking about too, when you were like, I don't really live on the space time continuum. I was like, that's true about you. But one

Ashley: 46:06

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 46:07

you when I send people your way is. You will feel like you are the only person when you are with her, like, like nobody else exists.

Ashley: 46:16

Mm.

Berrylin : 46:17

And so I think we could all, all, you know, maybe some of us need to be a little bit more like me so that like trains don't run into each other. Um,

Ashley: 46:25

That's right.

Berrylin : 46:26

like, I think in our relationships, remembering like maybe losing some of the space time continuum so that you can be in that space and present with people, I picked that up too. So thank you for being

Ashley: 46:40

Mm.

Berrylin : 46:41

just gift to all those who

Ashley: 46:43

Mm hmm.

Berrylin : 46:43

very grateful for you.

Ashley: 46:46

Mm. I just love you. I'm going to imagine you in those waves. Seriously, all week, I'm going to just imagine you. Yes! Woo hoo!

Berrylin : 46:54

over here anyway, I just want you to know need to come to Scotland. Um, feel free to bring all your cold water dipping friends. I will plan a retreat for y'all, but you were going in the North sea with me before I leave. Thank you. Bye. It is happening. I

Ashley: 47:07

Yes!

Berrylin : 47:08

I am stating it as fact now,

Ashley: 47:12

Okay.

Berrylin : 47:12

bring your Sunday's hat. We don't have to do it on a Sunday, but you can just

Ashley: 47:15

I will. I will wear it. I will wear it. Yep. Yes, indeed.

Berrylin : 47:22

Thank

Ashley: 47:22

I love you.

Berrylin : 47:23

back. We'll have something else we need to talk about.

Ashley: 47:27

Okay. I'll do it.

Berrylin : 47:28

today. We will see you on the next episode.