Hello. Hello and welcome to the hallway podcast. I am Berlin mansion. I am Alan White. And we are here today to talk about emotional, relational and spiritual care in the hallway. Yeah. Yeah, we are. And we talked about last time, mental and physical care in the hallway. And so we want to move on a little bit to emotional, relational and spiritual care in the hallway. Again, we will mention the spiritual part at the end. That's not congruent for you. Feel free to just stop before that part. But Allina and I are going to share a little bit about how that's been important for us in our expression of faith. So emotional care we want to start there and then we'll move a little bit into relational, a little bit into spiritual. Again, like we said earlier, emotional care is probably in the way we're using the term. What people were referred to as mental health. Yeah, because when we've talked about mental and physical care, we've talked about the mental and physical body and brain. Yes. And so with emotional care, we're looking at how you navigate the dynamics of the world around you, in your thoughts and feelings. Yes. So it kind of refers to feelings, thoughts, what I call gratitude and grieving. Yeah. At which we'll talk about boundaries and living on your side of the street, which is something I learned when I was an internship that I've kind of used as a way to pull all of that together in a way that's kind of approachable. Yeah. So I'm going to talk a little bit about it and Eileen's going to ask me some clarifying questions. Yes. Yeah. Sometimes I think I'm being clear and I'm not. That's what friends are for. That's true. Good ones anyway. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So let's start out with emotional care. Um, the place where you typically want to start with emotional care and the reality is, is this work probably needed to have started before you got in the hallway. But if it didn't, at this point you probably need a wise therapist or a wise coach or access to a really good library that has lots of books that you can look at and go, how do I start to know my own story? Because that's where we need to start. You need to look at knowing your own story. What was life like for you? What was your family of origin like? What's your attachment style like? How do you understand the way that you are wired and the way you engage with the world? And the more we know and are able to apply it to ourselves, the more we are able to understand our own thoughts and feelings. Um, also I want to note if you're noticing as you're doing this work, I can that a lot of anxiety is coming up or you have people around you that are saying, I think you might be depressed. Right. That is the time to build a relationship with a really good psychiatrist. Yes. So general practitioners, internists that do, uh, that prescribed psychotropic medication. They're beautiful as well. And if you already have a relationship with somebody like that and you trust them, I think that's really beautiful. I tend to encourage my clients to find a really wise psychiatrist because that's what they specialize in. Yeah. And so if you're looking at like, my anxiety is making it hard for me to function. Or, I am having a hard time getting out of bed and it has moved past grief, not being able to get out of bed. This is a time to, to find a really good psychiatrist, build a relationship and see if your brain chemistry needs some support during this season. Mm hmm. Very big. So. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Is there a list of resources of psychiatrists that you would recommend that we could talk So typically what I tell people to do, the first thing I would say is there are people around you in your area, whether it's, um, your OBGYN, your internist, your general practitioner, your chiropractor, your friends, your family members, they typically have people that they trust. And if you ask, they will be like, here's who I went to. Don't go to that person. And here's who I've gone to that I really appreciate. Right. Which is worth saying, because you can. Find I mean therapy nowadays is is really like the stigma is going away. People are really coming against that It's widely accepted, but there are still therapists out there that are like Not that great. Sure. It's sad to say. Yeah. So you and there are really, really good ones, but you do have to shop around a bit and people you trust. Yeah. And being able to ask for like, there are times when some people will reach out to me and I'll be like, I'm not what you need right now. Right. Yeah. Here's what you need right now. And here would be, well, I hope so. Here would be my suggestions of who can do that, um, in your area. The other thing is psychology today is a great online resource and you can search for like, you know, I want to see a woman, I want to see this type of person. I want them to focus on this type of thing. And so psychology today, but the first step I would do is ask people, you know, and really you'll, you may start to notice that certain people's names come to the forefront. Often that will happen. So if you're looking for a good therapist, a good coach, good resources, book and podcast wise, good psychiatrist, Good. Whatever. Ask around to the people that you know, even if they're not your closest people, but people that you trust professionally because you'll find some good resources. So that's where you want to start is knowing your story. And alongside of that, what's going to come up is you're going to know yourself more. And then what you're going to start to understand is what needs are. And what wants are for a lot of us, those got mixed up in childhood. Yeah. Um, sometimes we got a lot of wants, but not a lot of needs. Sometimes we got a lot of needs and not many wants. And so just starting to learn like, what are those and how did those show up in my life as an adult, um, needs typically when I talk to people are things that we've been talking about the way you care for yourself. Um, they're the base needs of like shelter. Food, water, rest, connection to your precious body and nervous system. Connection to safe others in a community. Mm-Hmm. Those are needs. Yeah. And then wants are like, I want fun food, or I want this new pair of shoes, or I want some adventure. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So, and we want you to have wants as well. Mm. There are some seasons where we really have to just like focus on needs and that's what we can do in that season. We also want you to be able to get to some wants. So once you start having a baseline of, I kind of know what my attachment style is. I know where some of my wounding is. I've been introduced to inner child work. I am working on my story and understanding how, how I developed like the soil I grew in, what things were really beautiful and what things were broken. Then you start to go, okay, I need some. And I need some ways to talk about that. So I use the eight core feelings from, um, a book called, uh, voice of the heart by chip Dodd and they are anger, fear, hurt, lonely, sad, guilt, shame, glad. This work started, I think with Peter, I forget his last name right now, Inc. Maybe E N K or E N C K. I can't remember. Okay. Okay. Okay. And it started with studying people's facial expressions, and then it's created this whole wheel of feelings, et cetera. There are a couple of practitioners, Chip Dodd being one, that have broken them down into some core feelings. Pia Melody has a different list. This is just the one that I use that I resonate with the most. Most people say to me, why is there only one good one on the list? So let me address that. Yeah. None of them are bad. Feelings are just feelings and feelings have a benefit and they have an impairment. And so if you want to know more about that, I would look up Chip Dodd's work. Um, it is a faith based book. So there, if you're not, if you don't identify as Christian, there'll be parts that you'll need to skip over, but it does have some really good information. So for me, knowing that anger has. It's a benefit and impairment. The benefit is anger is a justice emotion, tells you what your yes is and what your no is. It is how you draw boundaries. It's how you know yourself. Anger is a well and good emotion. For me, the way I understand the impairment of anger is rage. And what rage is, is really when all those eight feelings, well, seven of them usually not glad get all thrown up together like Mentos in a Coke bottle and they come spewing out of you. With not kindness. Um, so anger is a justice emotion. It is well and good. I think that the majority of the world needs to know how to take their anger and funnel it well for change in the world. Yes. Agreed. Rage is just not knowing yourself, not understanding how to separate them out and what to do with all these gorgeous big feelings that you're having. Um, loneliness leads us to a relationship. That's the benefit of loneliness. It leads us to reach out. It can also in an impairment lead us to isolation and depression. Yeah. So can I ask a question about loneliness? Yeah. I just wonder if one of the good benefits of loneliness would also be sort of getting to know yourself well, you know, just being forced to reckon with like, Oh, well I'm, you know, I lived alone in an apartment and, and I was like, who's this person that left their dish in the sink? Oh, it was me. I'm so annoying. I'm annoyed at myself. And I, um, Um, it felt that so yeah, absolutely. I think that too, if you want a really good song about that, there's a songwriter from Asheville, North Carolina named David Wilcox that my brother introduced me to when I was like 13 and he, he said, no, I'm absolutely not going to sing it for you, but he does sing a song called that's what the lonely is for and I think it says, um, if you seal up the pain and build walls in the hallways. And close off a small room to live in those walls from remain and leave you there always. And you'll never know why you were given the lonely. Wow. It's so good. So lonely. I mean, they're all so beautiful. Yeah. Your feelings are beautiful. It's because we haven't been taught how to navigate them that they feel negative. We've been very much afraid. Right. Of them. Yes. And so to learn how to navigate them and to name them, which again is so good for our brains and to connect with them and you don't have to do anything with it. That's the thing is everybody's like, well, what do I do now? It's like, well, you feel them, you just be okay with the fact that you're feeling this, you feel your feelings. And then what we go on to the next is you learn to tell the truth. So I talked to, to my clients about consensus reality. Like there is less and less these days, but historically has been a bit of consensus reality of like, Nine out of 10 people would tell you the sky is blue. That's consensus reality. And so starting to learn to tell the truth in a way that is understanding your perspective as well, that is how that connects to consensus reality. Because the reality is, is that feelings are always valid. What you are feeling is valid. They are not always true. Yeah. And in relationships, we'll get to in a minute. Often what I talk about is like question your first response because often we have a knee jerk triggered, activated response that's about our story, not really about what's going on in the moment. Yeah. And if we'll give ourselves a moment to breathe, connect, get quiet. Know what we're feeling. Tell ourselves the truth about it. Our response will be different. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it may actually be like question your reaction until you can get to your response. Yeah. Just that pause observing, Oh, that was, you know, case in point arguing with my husband and then saying, Oh, Hey, um, Yeah. Sorry, babe. That thing I said to you, I was talking to my mom, not you. So yep. Sorry about that. And sometimes even I'll, I experience often, I'm a person who likes a lot of structure, a lot of systems. I have a lot going on on the inside of me. And so if I can keep the outside, um, peaceful, it helps me. It can't do it all the time, but I try to. And so sometimes when somebody will contact me and be like changing plans. Um, my first reaction typically is internally is like, yeah, which is about my discomfort. Yeah. I'm feeling probably fear. It's probably fear. And so I'll just take a minute and I'll go, okay, how does that actually feel to you? It was that. And often what I get to is what they've suggested works better. Right? Sure. Absolutely. And so if I give myself that moment to go, okay, what are you feeling? Where do you feel that in your body? How are you doing? And then getting, so my feeling is valid, but then I move toward what is reality and I'm like, actually that works better. Yeah. It gives me something I didn't even know I needed. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's such a good process to be able to move through. And you have practiced that so many times that in a moment where you would have a knee jerk reaction, you can kind of tend to yourself. Yes. Pause and say, hold on, Here's where we are get reoriented and bam, you're like, this is better. And so one of the things I was given, that's a great segue. One of the things I was given, like once I was given some terminology around feelings, learning that they're always valid, not always true. It's like, how do you tell the truth? Yeah. Well, one of the things I was given was when I. Fill in the blank. So when I heard you say friend that the, that the plans were changing, the story I made up is you always change plans and that's so inconvenient for me and blah, blah, blah. And about that story, I felt fear. Yes, that's great. Right. And so then I go back and go, okay, is that story I made up true? And I'm like, no, it's not. This is what's helpful. Works best for them. They're making a suggestion. I could send a suggestion back if it didn't work for me. Um, Um, you're hearing a little bit of like my family of origin of like, as a kid, like things went somebody else's way. Yeah. Um, and so just going like, you could just suggest something else to like, that's okay. And then if they needed to use their no, they could use their no. Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone's in charge of their own. Yes. And their own. No. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's right. And in conflict, you know, if you think about it, we'll get to this in relational care, but in conflict, when you hear like somebody say something like, you're like, when you said this or you did this, the story I made up, then the stories our brain makes up are based on our history, our family of origin, why it's so well to know your story. And so our brains are making up a story based on what we've experienced in the world so far. That doesn't always mean that that story is true and it is happening to your brain. And so then your feelings come up in response to that story. So if you can engage with the story and if you engage with your feelings, you can do it differently. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now it takes, again, it takes time. You're hearing, I started doing this work, you know, whatever, a decade and a half ago. So I'm at a point, and it still overwhelms me, there are times when I get really activated that I can't access that as well. Yeah, absolutely. Me too. But being able to start at the starting point and going, what am I feeling? What am I making up about, about it? And what do I feel about that story? Yeah. So that information that comes in through your senses, through your brain, through your ears, you're like, okay, here's what I'm hearing you say, or here's what I'm watching you do. Yeah. I make up a story about that. I have feelings in response to that. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that helps me just in addition to kind of connecting with my story is if I'm activated, um, if I, if it's really going off, like if I'm highly triggered, um, I have struggled. How do I do this without, you know, here's a, here's an example of me being highly triggered, getting out of the house in the morning with our two small children. Um, everyone's in a rush. Like there's the chaos of it is a lot dealing with their emotions, dealing with my tiredness, dealing with all the things, um, getting into the car in a small space. Then I'm already at like, You know a high level of stress sure into the car in a small space and there our kids are just loud I love that they're loud because I want them to live loudly. I love that When I'm stressed my ears are just so sensitive every bit of stimuli is like yeah get away from me sort of thing and So I'm in an enclosed space. You talk about grounding for me is like, shut out the stimuli. Right. And so this is a bit of like what we talked about in the last episode. This is a little bit of like cold water immersion, exposure of this like intensity where I'm like, I want to jump out of this car and I have to stop and breathe. And I have to talk to my little kid self. Because I'm engaging with my story, chaos was a big part of my childhood story, and I'm saying, Hey, look at you. You're okay. You're, you're in this. This is hard. You're an adult now. I'm gonna take care of you like you're you're well, you're safe. Do you see how safe you are? I know this is loud. I know this is a lot and that has been the thing that I've grabbed for To get like and that is an example of you know being in touch with my story Realizing wow, this is why this bothers me so much because I'm triggered. Yeah, you know, so yeah I'm going to pause real quick to just point something out that you just did. You talk a lot about narrating for your kids. And that you learned to do that when they were toddlers and that it has become even more important as they've gotten older. So you're giving them words and a narration of like, here's what I think you're experiencing. And I wonder if the flow of that, if it's kind of gone toward like you teach your kids how to do it and you do it for your inner kiddo and you teach your kids how to do it and you do it for your inner kiddo. That is so something I've been experiencing in my endeavors too. It's funny, the parenting, you know, swirl, as you learn about parenting tactics, you're like, well, hold on. I need parenting too. Uh, I never got this. And so it is that kind of like pause, reparent myself and parent my kids. But it is like, um, I heard someone say sort of like, If you really dig down deep, when you're at your best as a parent for your kids, when you're the parent that you want to be at your very best, you're the version of the parent you needed. Yeah. Um, when you were a kid. And so the power that we have in engaging with our story and the power for healing and growth, um, in the middle of it all is, is wild actually. And I will say too, if you're a person listening, that's does not have children. You can think of it too, as how you speak to the people you love the most. When they are hurting, that those are the same moments, um, it just comes out, I think more often when you're parenting, but it's the same thing you do for your precious friends and family. Yeah. So. Um, when you look at how you're speaking to yourself, that knowing how that connects to your story, knowing how that connects to your feelings, being able to learn the difference between your perspective and consensus reality, because mostly when we're talking about Uh, normal and quotation marks situation. Everybody's going to have a different perspective because everyone has a different brain and a different story. But if you talk about some of the grounding facts, you're going to be able to get to consensus reality. And so that's what we're hoping for is understand the difference between your perspective and consensus reality, knowing how to speak to yourself about what is truth and knowing how to know what you're feeling around it. And then that leads you to boundaries. Which we'll do lots of talk about this, but I'm gonna give you my brief spiel is that you are in charge and have agency over yourself only and your kids more, but we're not gonna talk about that right now. But in terms of like your dynamics as an adult, you have no control over the adult across from you. You do have agency and responsibility and control over yourself. So for example, if you are in public and some crazy person is yelling at you, Kylie Kelsey and the woman in the Jersey shore, you get to just choose where your ears are. You get to choose what your mouth says and you get to choose where your ears are. You have no choice over this person that you don't know yelling at you, but you do have choice over yourself. And so learning to, Say, like, I will or I won't. You can make requests of people you're in relationship with, like, I would like to ask you to do this. If you choose not to do that, here's what my boundary will be. People that don't like your boundaries will often experience that as control. That's also not yours to navigate. So there are lots of really great books on boundaries. Um, I suggest if that is an area, that's usually an area for all of us. We need a lot of work on alongside. Like last time we talked about doing some research into polyvagal, I do some research on boundaries. Yeah. It's so helpful. It really helps you to understand where you as a person start and end. Yeah. And that really the boundary work is kind of, I think, probably a continual thing for everyone for always. I mean, it's not just like, wow, that one time I needed to put a boundary in place. Yeah. It is, is in, they, they're so nuanced. And, you know, you say, I think it's such a good checkpoint, you know, to look at and say, am I on my side of the street? Where am I in this? You know, Chris and I say a lot, not my cookies, not my kitchen, not my flambe. We say not my circus, not my monkey. You know, and you have to remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking about side of the street. When you look at side of the street, I would draw it for you if we were in person, but imagine this. Yeah. Imagine this. On your side of the street are three houses, your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors on the other person's side of the street. Are there thoughts, feelings and behaviors? What you're working to do is not cross the street. So I try to help my clients very again, nuanced, but to not say you made me feel instead, what you say is when you whatever behavior, when you yelled at me, I felt angry or hurt or lonely or sad or scared. So what you're trying to do is own your own thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and leaving their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors to them. Here's the reality of living in the world we live in though, somebody can set your house on fire. Yeah, exactly. And so there are things in the world that other people will do that were narrow our choices. Yes. And if you weren't a victim situation, someone has taken your choices. That's a different conversation. So it is worth noting, like people will. Harm your side of the street and narrows your choices and what you can do in response. Yeah. And you are still responsible for your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. So that's your side of the street. Living on your side of the street means am I being responsible for my thoughts, feelings, and behaviors? Do I know what my choices are? Am I working to keep my side of the street tended to, and I, am I sticking away from trying to tend to someone else's side of the street? Trying to make them do something or be something or think something can't do that won't work or it'll work for a while and then it'll stop. It'll backfire and be a mess. Yeah. Which leads us into relational care. So when you look at sides of the street and you look at your relationships, kind of looking at who are your closest people, because the closest people that you're around, there's going to be an, uh, a level of co regulation, which again, goes to go listen to Deb Dana. But. If you, the people around you are working to be safe and grounded and connected and know their own story, that's going to affect you. And so being able to be around people that are walking on Yeah. And then you're going to have others that are like, you know, people, you know, from your kid's school or from work and you'll enjoy having conversations with them or like people that you see at the grocery store. If you live in a small town like us, people you see walking their dogs. And so really being intentional about the people you are in consistent relationship with and how is that affecting how you co regulate? Yeah. Very good. And then looking at how do I engage in conflict? How do I communicate? And those typically again, have their roots in the soil of your childhood. And so you'll start to notice like, am I someone who avoids? Am I someone who over pursues in my younger years? I was absolutely anxious over pursuer because I just wanted it to be okay. And so now as an adult being able to sit in the discomfort, regulate myself and wait and see what's going to happen. Give myself some time to see where I need to use my voice. Give myself some time to see what I need. Give myself some time to see what I want. But again, that goes just like we're saying, they're all connected. My ability to navigate relationships. Um, with more patients presence and self is because I've learned how to regulate. Yeah. And I, if I can just say like these things, well, they're easy to say, they're easy to read in a book. They're easy to think about in the theory, but in practice I think that it does take just practice. You know, it takes continually revisiting these things and continually, um, I think it's easy for us to. To just be like, you know, okay, I, I'm on my side of the street. It's fixed sort of thing. You know, done. We're good. And which is again why we call it a practice because it is a lifelong relationship of this work. That's right. And there are times in certain relationships where I still have to work a lot harder. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot more work to regulate, to stay on my side of the street. It's a lot of work, but it is the well and good work to do. And it's a practice that will continue to grow throughout my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. So the other thing I want to bring up about being in relationships is that there are times in relationships where we need to do a lot of receiving. Okay. Yeah. Right. Like that might be you right now. Yes. That is exactly right. And there's not a lot of giving there's, there's not going to be a lot of like doing things for other people. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's such, such an interesting place to be in because I know that I get, you know, I get the tend and befriend, um, you know, endorphins from doing things for other people. Right. I'm like, Ooh, oxytocin, serotonin and all that. And, and I don't have the capacity. And so I, I feel like I'm over here with this, you know, trying to, trying to keep my head above water with weights tied to my feet. Like being like, how are you trying to have a conversation? And I'm like, this is not possible, you know? And again, though, we did have like Saturday morning where we took a moment to step out of everything and we did get to have good. So I think that's the thing about balance is when are there seasons where. where in friendship you say, like this is a time where I give. And maybe that may even be sometimes sacrificial giving where you're like, this is a sacrifice for me. And it's a well in good one to make. Yes. And their seasons to be in the place of receiving and the better, you know, your story. And the more present you are in your relationships, the more the flow of that will become apparent. That's right. And I just to say for all to hear, like it's been so kind of you, you have been a really good friend of me because you have given me that space. You have perceived, obviously I'm going through it and you've just accepted that, you know, I mean, that I'm. Yeah, that I'm in trying to keep my head above water like that. And you've given me a lot of space and grace to say, that's okay when, when you're ready, you know, it'll be okay. Hopefully we're, I'm not in this kind of crisis for ever. Well, I'm, thank you for saying that. I'm glad that that has. Yeah. Yeah. I want like to say for the people listening to that, that has taken for me internal reminders. So it hasn't been hard work because I've been doing it for a while, but there are times when I will miss you or I will be sad. This happens a lot with people back home and I have to regulate those feelings of I am sad. I am lonely. I miss this person and that is not their fault. That's great. And I, and you've been really clear with that too. You've been amazing to name those things. You talk about like kind of the approach of conflict, you know, the way that your needs as a friend and mine couldn't match up in certain points, you know, and you were really clear at various points to say, Like, can we check in sort of what is that? And then we could actually talk about, here's where I'm at. Here's where you're at. And there was just this kindness to hold that for each other. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say too, for people listening that cause they weren't a part of those conversations, those conversations were still messy. Like we would have times where one of us would apologize for something that the other person was like, I don't really know that you need to apologize for that. Or like, I'm feeling this and the other person be like, Oh, I hadn't thought about that. So y'all are hearing us in real time. Talk about the conclusion and to just let you know that those conversations are going to be messy. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. Um, when there is kindness and presence because both people are doing their work, the messiness though just feels like, but I, Oh, I'm so in you, you know? Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. As opposed to harmful, messy. Right. And so I would just encourage you as you're doing this work to like have the messy conversation and do it in a way that is present, kind, safe, safe, using your voice, yeah. And just so if you're hearing us and it's like, sure, it sounds like they have it all figured out. It's because you weren't a part of the conversation. Yeah, absolutely. It's not that these things are really uncomfortable doing. this work with ourselves and with other people. And so, yeah, absolutely. One of the things I will say to you that we didn't start with, it feels really important to note, like specifically is part of what we're saying is we've also built a really good relationship with ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big breath like that. I feel that in my bones because it has taken so much time, effort, money. Heart to do that. And to get to the point where I'm like, I really like her. And there are times when I still have moments where I'm like, Oh, Beryl, and seriously, like there's so many moments where like my pride comes up or my hurt comes up or my anger comes up or my rage comes up and I'm having to navigate the reality of being human. But to have gotten to a point where I, I really know her and I want to know her, I don't want That's really big. Yeah. We're both like tearing up right now. Yeah, I can see that. But it's, I think that that's something that I have felt so safe to do in myself being your friend. I've seen that work in you and it's given me further permission. To do that for me too. It's something that I wanted to do. Um, but there's just certain stages that everybody's in with that kind of work. And there was just, it seemed like we fell on the same level in a lot of that, where it was like, I want to love myself. I'm working on it. I can't, I, I haven't in the past very much, you know, but I do love. Yeah. I love myself as I'm getting to know these things, and I'm making space for these things. Um, this is such a beautiful thing, yeah. I think that that'll just leave us a moment to say, because that's such a beautiful place to be of like. The space between two people of saying like, the more I know myself, the more I'm able to love you and the more you know yourself, the more that inspires me and I'm able to experience love from you as well as to be reminded to love myself. It's the flow of things. It's yeah, it's the design of it too. It's amazing because there is a space for us to be alone on our own, the solitude and the stillness. Yeah. That's it. a beautiful space, uh, space. But we're also just not meant to be isolated. Yeah, that's a big difference to spend time being alone is different than being isolated. That's right. Yeah. And so kind of that nuance and discovering where is that line and what, how is that defined where I am okay with being with myself? I love that you said that I love myself more. It makes me love you more. And that's really how relationships work. I think, you know, so we're just going to take a note here about spiritual care. Okay. And congruent for you, we will see you next time or hear you next time. Talk to you next time. Yeah. But the thing I think that we're both noting is that Covertly, that I want to bring to the forefront is that for me, the basis of that is knowing that I am loved and seen and created by God, um, with gifts and talents and wounding that is all mine and that God sees me, knows me and loves me where I am as I am and that it doesn't change. And the grounding of that allows me to know myself. It allows me to see my crap. Um, with a movement towards change as opposed to a movement towards shame. So I think that the term of spiritual care is, is your connection to God. One that gives you a foundation to experience love, to be known, seen, cared, held, fought for so that you can do that for yourself and the people that are in your world. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. The feeling of just sitting, uh, In the reality, for me, it's the, just such the truth of God. The creator all knowing knows me, knows what I will do in the future. That will be really stupid. Those knows what, you know, I, you know, I've, I have been knows everything about me and loves me the most deeply is, it's just insane, you know, it's, um, flattening and as a place of. As you sit in there and you receive that love gives you the capacity to then love and forgive yourself, gives you the capacity to then say, I'm worth this time and effort for this work. Yeah. Um, for me, that's where it all begins. And again, I, I feel so much like sacred, holy, tender, aware ground right now of everyone's experience has been so different. Absolutely. And especially when you've been harmed as a kiddo. Yeah. Um, there are places where it feels like, how can that be true? So I would just encourage you in those places to be present with people that are safe. Yes. Um, your story is valid. Your experience is valid and you are loved, worthy and seen exactly as you are, who you are, where you are. Can I say something that has helped me engage with my story as a kiddo with God, with this spiritual connection? Um, when you blend the two, when you're really engaging with your story and you're going back to these moments, these triggers, whatever. And if there feels like a safe place available to you to do a practice, like bring God into that story, ask God, what were you doing at that time? If you're really feeling safe to go and explore that, where were you God? You know? Um, I have had some of the most transformative healing experiences asking that of God, um, setting up a space where when it feels safe and when I'm ready to revisit a trigger moment or a part of the story, which would be like a trauma moment. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, you know, and I'm not talking about forcing myself to relive a trauma that I'm not ready to do. Right. You're just kind of engaging with it. Yes. Yeah. When it's like, I'm safe, I'm ready to go here. This is coming up and I'm okay. Um, Um, almost dialoguing with God, being that, practicing that honesty of like, wow, I feel so broken. This is, I feel shame, you know, whatever it is that I'm, I'm dealing with and allowing God to bring some things, number one, up to the surface of my thoughts, um, that are important that I think maybe the Holy Spirit is doing. Yeah. Um. Um, and also to remind me, sometimes God will bring things into my imagination, my heart, my thoughts that will be like, this is where I was in that moment. You know, whether it's, I was protecting you from something further, I was crying, I was feeling the pain with you. I was grieving that with you. And even just the with usness, um, is so healing. If that makes sense. And I would just encourage you if you're listening and you're at a place where you're like, that feels really congruent for me. That, that is sometimes something that can be done on your own. And sometimes at the beginning it needs something that's done with some wise prayer people, some wise sojourners that go like, let me be present with you in that moment because it can be scary on your own sometimes and sometimes you're absolutely ready to do it on your own. Yeah. So again, that feels like one of those things where the more you know yourself, you've been able to do that because you've done so much other work. And so wherever you are in that journey. to be able to start where you are. If just sitting in your worth is where you are, that's enough. Like just being like, God, I just want to know that that is true. Just start there. And then if you're further down that journey, if you're like, all right, God, I want to talk to you about some really trauma moments in my world. I want to talk to you about where you were because I don't know where you were. And if you can do that on your own and you want to do that on your own, that's well and good. And if you want some support, get some support. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, and I'll, I'll just, um, confirm that, uh, you know, I have done that on my own sometimes. And then there have been quite a few times where I have called for someone that I really trust that I trust even spiritually as well, because there's a whole element to that, right? Of, of safe, spiritual, um, practices, safe spiritual people and unsafe spiritual people that you have to be aware of and hold. Um, and so I've called that in as well. And that's been really helpful of like, you know, maybe I'm asking God where, what, where were you God in this time? And I'm not really getting any response. Then that friend is there and present to walk me through, like, let's explore this. And it's beautiful. It ends up being beautiful. Yeah. So we're going to stop here. Yeah. And this is for a while, Aline's final moment on this side of the pond, at least for now till her next visit. Yes. So Um, we've kind of walked you through the basic components of care, the foundational components of care and some practices that might be well and good. And then when Al settles, we're going to have a conversation with her about dreaming and big transitions and what surviving and dreaming has looked like together. And until then, I'm going to interview some other kind wise sojourners about their experience of the hallway and what they've been practicing. And then Aline and I will come back together. Um, when she is where she gets to, yes, wherever that may be. So we just pray peace and blessings on you as you travel, as you lead, as you grieve, as you look forward to, and then we'll all come back together and we'll hear how that went. Yeah. Can't wait. Thank you all for being with us today. We're really grateful. Yeah. Thank you. We will talk to you soon. All right. Bye bye.